Backmasking Questions

I haven’t talked specifically about backmasking here for a while, so I thought I would throw out some questions for discussion. What are your thoughts on:

  • Do the messages exist or are they just random sounds that seem like messages?
  • Are the messages intentional?
  • If the messages are/were real, can/could our subconscious minds decipher them and can they influence us?


52 replies on “Backmasking Questions”

I reckon that some messages are intentional. The Beatles messages are intentional, the Weird Al ones are and so are a lot of other ones. But, Led Zeppelin say they’ve nothing to do with the Stairway To Heaven message, and Judas Priest went to court because of a message found in one of their songs.
About your first question, I like the way that if you play the song backwards with no lyrics, it just sounds like a load of old rubbish, but when you put the lyrics on, you’re like “Oh! It’s oh so obvious now!”
And going back to the Judas Priest song, they were taken to court because of the backward message “Do it, do it” that two boys found on the song, and believed it was telling them to commit suicide because the lyrics book had the letters: S. U. I. inside it, and the boys believed this meant “suicide”. So, maybe your mind can decipher what the messages mean and how they can influence us.
If you’ve taken the time to read this, thanks.

I agree with Joe. Backmasking “messages” that require any kind of careful listening are most likely the auditory equivilant of ink blots.

i am a britney spears fan and when i heard the message on your backmasking page i thought there would be some more secret messages in other songs. i tried with oops i did it again and it had several messages in the 1st minute

Hey there, well i enojoy the site, i find it really interesting this whole idea of backmasking, but dont you think its a big waste of time. yes it is neat but still who would put so much effort into writing lyrics that when played in reverse have messages. sometimes satanic.. i don’t know
anyways the other night a friend told me to get the song Are you experienced by jimmi hendrix, cause he said it sounds like parts of it are recorded in reverse, so we played it backwards and near the end you can slighhtly hear the words ” Can You Hear The Message” found that pretty neat..Anyways keep up the great work and keep an eye out for those “Subliminal Messages” :)

yes they do exceste i have proof bc i had a friend sing them and i played them backwards and u can hear the messages. i had email u about them jeff

hey i think you have did a great job.. because those of you who are christians, you’d understand what im trying to say. the devil is behind all these things, he makes such music look and sound as if they’re oh-so-nice and nothing to do with being satanic, evil or anything like that. but instead- when you play it backwards, its actually such a freaky surprise! its part of a prove that the devil uses “good” things to cover up for his ways to get people to worship him. how can someone be so coincidental, as to write the lyrics in a “nice” way, but end up becoming so evil when its heard the other way? only the devil could do this.. watch out people, believe in christ while you can because only then would you find how much god loves us.

Have you listened to Kid Rock’s song “Rock ‘n’ Roll Pain Train”? It supposedly has some back masking in it. You may want to check it out.

Well, I think this backmasking thing is coolbut, I don’t think it has anything to do woth the devil or satan or anything like that, I don’t really believe much of those things that i can’t see.. but when you talk about this it seems that the dialog or discussion or whatever is much like that if you talked about spiritism… so I think that all things whit devil or satan is a bunch of bullshit, but anyways this stuff is heavy and fun to laugh at, so if you find something, why don’t share it with others?

Very good job putting together those songs. I think most of those messages were on intentionally put in there by the bands (the Led Zeppelin especially, despite their denial), but I think a couple are coincidence. I am very religious but I don’t think the messages are made satan or the devil; it would be pretty foolish to think so. I think the majority of it is just bands (like the beetles) trying to have some fun and the rest being coincidence.

I believe that some artists put backmasking in their music for popularity, and others do just because they can, and other instances happen coincedentally. Don’t you think that sales sky rocketed on records such as “led zeppelin IV” due to the controversey started about the messages in the song? Well in the particular case of stairway to heaven, a friend and i actually investigated different parts of the song, and with some research on the band, the messages actually make sense. One of the most easily recognizable and most senseful message that i found was “i live with satan”
this message makes sense because jimmy page, guitarist of the band, lived in Aleister Crowley’s mansion at the time. Aleister Crowley is one of the most well known and one of the “fathers” of the dark arts. So the messages in stairway to heaven all lead to this cornerstone. Also, i heard another message in the song, “i see the river” this makes sense because beside the mansionthat page lived in at the time lied a river that fed into the loch ness. If you research some of these messages, things start to make sense.

As for the other messages. The beatles “paul is dead” may have been done on purpose due to the fact that the lyrics played forwards are just jibberish. The Yoko ono song on the other hand, played backwards and forwards makes complete sense to the ears, perfectly distinguishable.
as for the others, some of them planned, osme of them questionable.

some other songs that i know of with secret messages are:
“loser” by beck – the end of the song says “im a loser baby” backwards.
“larry” by Weird al Yankovic – during the crescendo of the song, there are some lyrics that are indistinguishible; when played backwards it says “wow, you really have a lot of free time on your hands”

and whether or not the brain can actually subliminally pick up these messages is anyones guess. Without an assist as to whether there are messages, i dont think anybody can really hear them, but, im no pyschiatrist. in fact, im not sure if i even spelled that right.

I think you have a cool site.I am not sure if the messages are intentionally put in,with exception to the ones that are scrambled speech when played fowards.There is a good website you might want to check out,
it is called and is produced by an expert who has supposedly discovered reverse speech not only in music,but in everyday conversation.David John Oates is an interesting guy.Check out the site and tell me what you think.Also,anyone else reading this message should check out the site as well.

Well I think that alot of the messages are intentional like the Beatles and Zepplen and Al but otherwise its mostly coincidence. I also agree that the bands that do them on purpose are probobly just doing it to gain popularity. I dont think Zepplin is a bunch of satonests, I have to be honest that I do listen to alot more of them now that I have heard that on your site.

To all you new to backmasking make sure you listen to the song backwards before you look at the lyrics, its way better to make your own desicions on the peice before you let the power of suggestion overcome you

Also, for the coincidence, I think when we speek our subliminal minds put little mesages to others minds in our speech reverse. As off subject as this is, I would like you all to know its more fun then a barrel full of monkeys to record your voices then play it backwards.

One time I recorded my friend talking about how hungry he was and begging me to get him a little debby. Suprisingly, backwars he seemed to say “need food, must eat!”

cool huh?


I think its pretty much obvious whats real and whats fake, lets look at this one.

I looked at it while the words were on screen so i could hear what was supposedly being said. Later on i played it to my roomate with the monitor off and all he could hear was “random gibberish and beeping sounds” after wards i showed it to him with the words and he could hear it.

Id say the words being there definitely make it more obvious

I think mature adults have the ability to determine what they’d like to believe mentally. I’m no religious fundamentalist but I’m not one to partake in the dark arts either. I’d like to hope that just because I listen to Led Zeppelin doesn’t mean I’m some huge follower in this so called scam but rather a person who deeply appreciates classic rock music. There are plenty of contradictions within churches and I’m not shoving down that load of truth down their throats, quit trying to tell me the music I listen to is wicked.

Do you have any idea how hard it would be to deliberatly backmask a message into a song? Try it yourself: come up with an interesting phrase, and now find something to say, tape, play backwards, and have your message come up.

There are countless examples in psychology of the human mind trying to find patterns where patterns do not exist. Things like The Bible Code and Backmasking are, taken seriously, just a few steps away from tin foil hattery.

I remember an exhaustive episode of Ideas (CBC Radio 1) on this issue over a decade ago. While I’m no expert, I’m highly skeptical there is even anything left to discuss here if one does a survey of the literature. (And I think I saw the first Flash application of this 5 years ago)

But we can all have a laugh/strap on tin foil hats if we like.

Real and intentional? Beatles; sure. Weird Al and Pink Floyd obviously. Some similars at the end of a Prince song from Purple Rain; another in Galactic Cowboys title album.

Friends and I backmasked “We worship the devil” in a childrens nyah nyah sing song, approximated it to “Old van dustbuster whee-el”; played that backmasked and got a really creepy message.

I bet someone could set up a backmask dictionary of phrases or phonemes and make some nice examples.

Hi, I am a 15 year old boy from Norway, Trondheim. And I jusr whant to say that I find “Backmasking” very interesting. I’m just curious, where can I get this program you use to backmask?

I Think some tend to be intentional, especially the ones that make good sence backwards. In the Pokemon theme song theres alot of stuff backwards and was clearly heard and obviously intentional. I posted a comment about it awhile ago in the stairway to heaven comment site! I think The next thing Jeff should put up is the parts from the pokemon theme song or the whole thing backwards.

I must say i’m absolutely amazed and taken aback when i first bumped into this website. I got the creeps at first. i’m sure most people do.. but in fact, this website, the whole backmasking thing, has inspired me to do a further research about it. I found lots of interesting related materials and i’ve used both and especially this site, for my speeches to both my college mates & youth group.

Both of my audiences were astonished and shocked. I suppose they have never realised this would ever occur in music. Most of them came back to me for the link to this website. I’ve been really encouraged when one of my youths came to me and told me, after listening from this website, he didn’t enjoy wordly songs anymore. He was determined to tell this to all of his friends who have yet to know.

I’ve bookmarked this link and up to now, i think i’ve been in and out of this website for about a couple of times for this whole week. I listen to it over and over again. By the way, i do enjoy this blog you have, jeff. Great job.

I’m a MASSIVE Blur fan (y’know, the band that did Parklife), and in their Song, called Song 2 (which you might know as the “Woo-Hoo” song) has backwards messages in it. In the chorus, it says “Justine, I want you, can’t live without you.” Justine was the lead singer’s girlfriend at the time, and shortly after this album, they split, which influenced the bands next album “13?. Anyway, see if you can find other stuff, use the link below.

A few years ago i was listening to the platinum collection of Queen. And for the first time in my life i heared the noise when the song started so i tought there was somthing wrong with my stereo.
So i went over to my computer and put the cd in there and when i put the song on there i had the same noise.
I keept lookign and tryign to filter otu the noise btu nothign seemed to work so i opened my mixing software and tryed playing it backwards.
It was a long shot but it payed to try it out.
So i played the sogn backwards and i heared Freddie Mercury say: “God workes in misterious ways”.
For all the years i have been a fan of Queen i never noticed the noise in the beginning of the song.
The thing i didnt think of that moment was that it was the exact same date the Freddie Mercury died.
So i think there is some truth in the message in the song God realy workes in misterious ways.
I know what i heared and it was so clear as i woudl say it out loud, but when i told my girl friend a few days later she tought i was crazy so i played the song for her and she also heared the noise in the beginning so i told her watch this.
And the moment i played the song backwards her mouth fell open andshe just stared at the computer screne and asked me to play it again cous she could not beleave her own ears.
I hope you guys wont laugh at this but i know what i heared when i played the song and i know it is as real as me sitting here writing this message on your site.
I would defenetly recomend to play this song backwards to all of you.

What i ment to say was the first song from the cd “A kind of magic” has the backward message in it 3one vision has the noise in it but i forgot to mention that it was off the cd a kind of magic sorry to have made this mistake to all.but i lost the paper where i had writen down the exact song the noise was in so i had a quick peek and listen to my “returne of the champions” cd featurign Paul Roggers. And on that cd they put the noise in front of a kind of magic instead of one vision.

Hi. Just found your site, it’s interesting. I remember looking into this a bit years ago, before PCs (even CDs actually) came along and simplified the whole procedure. I lost interest in the whole topic when I bought an LP by Girlschool which had an obvious backward message on it, so I played it backwards. The message was “Oi you, don’t you know you’re ruining your needle!” Put the whole thing in perspective for me and the whole topic lost its mystery. FYI, in those days of vinyl, there was two ways of doing it- either use a magnetic drive turntable and manually run the LP with yer finger on the label (this was even before rap and ’scratching’- pioneering stuff!), or for the more serious, use a belt drive turntable and flip the belt to a figure-8 so it played backwards.

Can you send the picture that’s at the background of the Led Zeppelin Stairway To Heaven backmasking site?

There can only be seen a part of it and it can’t be seen very sharply.

Are those backmaskings really true or are they some kind of fake? :)

in stair way to heaven it also says i wihs it would snow with the wall would rock me as i sleep all in the same part then later on it says once chance i hate you

In Weird Al Yankovich’s songs any and everything is definitely tongue in cheek. Ya gotta love him. I think his genius is that he does make fun of everything. Other songs having subliminal messages have never affected me that I know of! But, then maybe I am weird myself because most of the time I’d rather hear Weird Al’s version of a song than the original! Rock on Al! Keep doing what you do. If Keith and Mick can rock on into old age with me so can you!

P.S. I have learned how to say names backward. I tested my theory at the Exploratorium in San Francisco. If I said my name backward into their unique taperecorder it came out as you would say it normally. I’ve given my whole family their name backwards and in fun sometimes when my granson calls me he’ll say it’s rethgualS eeL sucraM. You can have a lot of fun with this renliM ffeJ!

The only song I personally heard play backwards is on the “Mothers of Invention” (Frank Zappa) album entitled: “We’re only in it for the Money”. Verve # V/V6 5045X. They occur at the end of side 2. (Remember albums?, ya have to turn ‘em over for the second side.) and are an extra verse to the song: “Chome Plated Megaphone of Destiny”. And has, amongst the rest of the verse, the words “Shi–y little person”.
This album has a release copyright date of October 1967, so the whole concept of subliminal messages is a lot older than some people realize.
Films in the ’30s and ’40s had pictures of whatever items the snack bar had to offer embedded within the film. These “images” would appear every 35-60 frames or so. The viewer wouldn’t notice the images, but the subconcious noticed and caused the viewer to purchase the item(s) shown. It was this type of “subliminal advertising” which caused the censors to outlaw the practice.
Thanks for reading this. Rob

Hi this is awesome, i heard about backtracking and backmasking in music several years ago (counting… 8 years) .. I`m muslim by the way and honestly speaking i wouldnt have expected a non-muslim to take interest in something like this but you`ve proved it.. Let me just clarify my assumption before you take offence..

Reason being is because its prohibited to listen to music in my religion islam as it is stated in our holy book that the devil challenged allah (our lord) to lead mankind astray with music, these subliminal messages really do complete the jigsaw puzzle.. i`ve added your link on myspace.. I must say you`ve done a really good job and i`ll be looking forward to hearing more of the shizzle that goes on behind music… Thanx!!!!! Read this article too

Sorry i forgot to add that i didnt expect a non-muslim to take so much interest in backmasking and others to co-operate so well.. As i read some gentlemans comment stating that he trashed his 70`s collection in the bin straight after the revelation.. I hope nobody takes offence by my post.. Im really impressed by the everyones reaction and how they belive it to be true cause some morons in my group are still in denial and say yeah woteva, now how do i deal with them? Bye now.. One love and respect :)

[Hey Jeff,]
[In Three 6 Mafia’s song, “Gotta Stay Fly”, there’s a women’s voice in background. She’s saying, “You are God-You are King-Lucifer!” If you don’t belive me, check it out yourself! Also, before Juicy J’s part in the song, he says, “Lucifer!”, to where you can’t hear it! Check it out, you’ll see!]

dude you should post more songs like that. ive allways heard of sub. mess. but never actually heard 1. i learned about this site on our local news in n.m.. i got to thinkin’ “what the heck is missy eliot sayin in that one song,,, i dont know what its called but i think u know the 1.

I just found a new song saying things backwards the song is “we will rock you” by Queen. It says “we where we where we…nigers”. and around the end of the song(which is the begining played forward) its “stepping on nigers like…”. I dont think I should say it!

Do the messages exist or are they just random sounds that seem like messages?

For some, it may just be that, but for others, it’s really there. If you can’t hear it without the aid of lyrics telling you what it is, it probably isn’t real…

Are the messages intentional?

You really never know. The Wierd Al one definately is, but some of the older stuff that we kids don’t listen to these days could definately be tweaked a bit to make it seem that way. “Stairway to Heaven” is one that I think has been tweaked, because I don’t think that the artists would intentionlly put something like “There was a little toolshed where he made us suffer” in their music, backwards or not.

If the messages are/were real, can/could our subconscious minds decipher them and can they influence us?

Oh, most definately. It just becomes a more subconcious thing, like looking at the door when someone walks in, or leaning foreward during an intense part of a movie or game. I personally think that even if it’s not a submliminal message, stuff can still influence you whether you realize it or not.

To clear things up.
Back masking is an audio technique in which sounds or voices are recorded on a track backwards that is meant to be played forwards.
Back masking is a deliberate act when an artist puts a message in his or her music that can only be heard when it is played backwards, whereas a backwards message is usually unintentional.

Many musicians have deliberately recorded backwards messages onto their songs, usually to avoid being censored, making artistic or social statements or just having fun at the expense of their critics

You can tell the difference between the two because when a song has been back masked, it doesn’t really make alot of sense played forwards, wheras the famous songs that you have accused of backmasking are simply backwards messages and are completly coincedental. The only problem here is that people have too much time on their hands. Anyone with any amount of creative interpretational skills can pick messages out of any song.
The answer? Go and try something better and more worthwhile doing than sitting at home and playing music backwards, and stop accusing Jimmy Page of being a satanist.

And another thing……..
In 1985, university psychologists John R. Vokey and J. Don Read conducted a study in which they played passages from songs that had alleged backmasking on them without being given the “Lyrics”. Of the 300 people tested only 10% claimed that they could hear anything. When they were given the lyrics 90% of them claimed they could hear it. a bit dodgy don’t you think? If these subliminal messages do exist they aren’t effective, so I wouldn’t worry about being “Brainwashed”.

I listened to Christina Aguilera Genie in A bottle backwards it says:
I am not (gibberish) a slut, rub the bottle to get me out!

I think the britneys ” Sleep with me I am not to young” is funny because she denied being a slut when the contraversal video came out!

Hey ‘um,someone’ its got nothin 2 do with satan or anything stupid like that, most of them u hav 2 b told wot it sez 2 work it out, and then there r the deliberate 1s. Jeez stop gettin worked up u christian freak!! keep serchin 4 em jeff its really kool

Listen to the Beatles ‘Strawberry Fields forever,’ because it has another message about Paul mcCarteny supposedly dying. You don’t need to play it backwards, it’s pretty clear, though the voice saying it (it’s actually John lennon) is very low and hoarse, so you may need to turn it up. It freaked me right out when I frst heard it, and my stepmother told me that her dad (a die-hard Beatles fan… he used to put adds in the paper on the anniversary of Lennon’s death)had told her about ths whole theory that everybody had that Paul had died and they were trying to cover it. Oh, by the way, the message is ‘I buried Paul’

I was Listening To Some Of Them Reverse Messages and
one of ‘em says ‘I Love You Said the Devil” & It Got Me
To Thinkin. Have You Ever Had Somebody make You
DO somethin You Didn’t Want To Do Because They
Loved ya. I Think The Devil Makes Ya Do it Cause
He Loves Ya. He Been Speakin To Me Some At My Site.

As an athiest I think people who study the backmasking themselves are the one’s who are so concerned with satan. It’s all clearly jibberish, and only why a person says hey look when i play this backwards it sounds like “shave my dogs ass!” now when they tell that to someone even though it’s just jibberish, it may sound a little bit like “shave my dogs ass” enough to convince them that is what they heard, even with a little doubt as to if this is really a message. If your preoccupied with religion in your life and you think about the end of the world and satan all day long you might want the message to sound like that, but the fact is these messages and the english laguage itself sound strange when played backwards anyway. I’m sure if your a muslim exstremeist and you backmask some of their rediculous songs in arabic enlish people will hear a different message then arabic speaking people. I’m sure theirs plents of aribic people would say “see i told you hadji! right there it says blow yourself up for allah when i play this record backwards” It’s all rediculous and i agree with the guy who commented on the ink blotter comarison, you hear what you want to hear. When you suggest to someone it might sound like that they make the connection you made without forming their own impression from that point on.

there is hidden messages in most old songs and some new ones like i found this one by clicking randomly in my computer and reversing them — sweet home alabama said — we smoke marijuana, marijuana leaves
– ps. thank you for your time

All I have to say is that you should stop trying to find hidden messages about dead bassists like Paul or “satanic messages” from Led Zeppelin that really sound like “ook kerplok stat una makro”. In reality, it doesn’t sound like anything. Please, just enjoy the music. That’s why it was made, not to make you stay indoors for three days straight going “oh, I think I heard him say something about Satan. I must exploit him and forget that I have no life by listening to him backwards and posting the evil messages on the web.”

hey dudes. my name is Josh im 13 and i have done ALOT of reaserch on subliminal backmasking and reversed sentances and statements.
there are alot of saved files on my computer that are reversed clips from songs,movies,commercials,T.V programmes,pictures and posters and stuff and i have discovered alot of messages myself.
On this game i play called DOOM2 the last level got me puzzled and i didn’t know how to finish it.The only clue i had was that at the start of the level it had a parchment of writing saying “launch rockets into the exposed brain of the icon of sin!” now the level is called icon of sin and it is basicly a tiny room that you spawn in with a teleport pad in front of it that you stand on and it takes you direcly to the icon of sin witch is just a face of a GIGANTIC demon. now as soon as you step onto the pad it plays jibberish unexplainable words and i said to my brother “what is this thing saying” he replied with “its a subliminal message that if you play it backwards it tells you what you are supposed to do”. so i recorded it and played it in reverse and it said “to win the game you must kill John Romero”
and john romero is the main programmer of the game so i done some reaserch i found that if you enabled a no clipping cheat and walk directly into the giant face then you can see an animated version of John Romeros head impailed on a stake and i learnt that some other programmers of the game put his head in the big face as a prank and Romero found out before they released the game so he got back at them by putting this secret message in.
thanks for reading this rather long comment

i very much appresheate it!

I definitely think the backmasking in The Beatles’ songs and Led Zeppelin’s songs, as well as some others, are real. That was the new “trend” in the music making business at the time of The Beatles. The other day, Stairway To Heaven came on the radio and my mom was singing to it. She told me and my sister that there are satanic references when the record was played backwards. We have an old record player at home, so we hooked it up and played my dad’s old Led Zeppelin record. Sure enough, we heard it! It was freaky, but very cool…the concept, though, not the actual message.

After seeing the trailer for the movie, Across the Universe, I researched some of The Beatles songs and the stories behind the songs. That is when I decided to look up something about subliminal messaging and backmasking. Across The Universe is a new movie coming out at the end of the year, using a ton of Beatles songs and names. The whole soundtrack is Beatles songs and the character’s names are Jude, Lucy, Doctor Robert, etc. It takes place in the 60s and has to do with the rock-and-roll/drug scene at the time. Sounds really good, you should check it out!

I think the concept is actually a really cool idea, even if they are talking about death and destruction :p For people who think that some of the 1960s or 1970s backmasked songs are just coincidence, it’s so clear that they recorded those on purpose. Sure, they sound “garbled”, but they are supposed to! That’s the point of a “hidden message”! Although I think that the newer artists who made fun of the idea by putting stupid messages in their own songs are ruining it. Cool idea, but now overdone.

Well anyway, I found your site so informative and really interesting. It sparked my interest in music and conspiracies, that’s for sure!!

Well, I have been into the whole backmasking thing for a few years now, and I must say I am addicted(SP) to it.
I reverse alot of music I listen to and I love to find “Hidden Messages”

My favorite that I have found is in a song called “Falling Apart” by the band Zebrahead. In the song the lyircs forward are “Everythings Falling apart, now I cant see you, dose’nt matter what I do, cant see you cause everythings falling apart”. And in reverse I hear “GOD, WHERE IS HE, CAN WE BE SAVED, I WANT TO KNOW, WE ARE ASKING YOU GOD”. I thought it was really cool because it makes the forward lyics kind of make since. For example, “Everythings falling apart” (in this persons life so he needs God)
“I cant see you dose’nt matter what I do”(He cant “see” God which could explain the “CAN WE BE SAVED, I WANT TO KNOW, WE ASKING YOU”.

I know I sound crazy and I’m pretty sure it was not intentional, but I know what I hear and I just thought it was kind of cool.


Yep, backmasking really pays off. Think of all the songs that openly have satan as subject, like Rolling Stones’ “Sympathy for the devil”. Then, as a band decide to be really original and wrap up the same message into an arduous process that will ruin listeners equipment as well as their interest in the songs you worked really hard for to produce and distribute. And for what purpose? ‘Buy our records?’ ‘Come see our shows’? Or even ‘Check out our website’? No, it’s some infantile comment about satan or some esoteric or nonsensical message you can read anything into. Yes, somehow it all makes sense now.

Yeah you can read in to all this backmasking real deep. Hard to know wether its intentional or not though. With people like weird al its obvious, but some of the other stuff like Zebrahead i dont know. I reversed falling apart and you can definitley see how it can be taken as intentional, but like you said Chris i dont think so.

I was recording with my band recently and it was pretty amateur stuff and we decided to put something in to see if it could be done , and we done it no trouble, and it mixed in with the song perfect. So I can see how it could be done intentionally, but wether all the satanic talk is chance, actually there to spread the word of satan, or there for the shock factor, we can never really know. Seriously interesting stuff though and this is a great site for it :)

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